Guest with Questions

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  15

  Jehovah is Grandfather, Jesus is Father ??

  by NotaNess in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  not sure i'm in the right section of the forum, but i thought i'd go where a ton of posters hang out.. can some one clerify for me and give me some experience notes about this subject that i came across on the net.. have jw's studied on jehovah being the grandfather and jesus being the father?

  if so, where does this come from.

  thanks!.

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  Guest with Questions

  Thanks Narkissos and garybuss for these quotes. I've already copied them to my files.

  I've also heard that the Organization is the Mother. Does anyone have any quotes?
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  24

  The JW lady came back/Who really is our Mediator?

  by Guest with Questions in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  continuation of my first post: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/132283/1.ashx.

  this past tuesday the jw lady came back, which surprised me.

  she came with her husband and i told them that it wasnt really fair (one against two).

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  Guest with Questions

  If you really want to know what the current light is on who they feel is the "Alpha and Omega", you really need to check your watch....

  Thanks for the chuckle! Just got on so haven't read your reply yet. Will read and respond later.
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  4

  re JW’s lady came back/Alpha & Omega

  by Guest with Questions in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  part 2. .

  alpha & omega: i asked the husband who the alpha & omega was.

  i read rev 1:8, (i should have continued reading v12-18), rev 21:6-7, rev 22:12-13 we all agreed that god (or jehovah/i prefer yahweh) was the alpha & omega.

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  Guest with Questions

  Gopher:

  Before I give a possible explanation, my caveat is that I think people can make the Bible support almost any position they want to take, including for and against the Trinity. Also I personally don't care much about the trinity debate any more. When I was a JW, this part from Revelation made me believe that God and Jesus were separate/distinct: Look at Rev. 1:8, and you see that the Alpha and Omega = the person which "is, was and is to come".

  If you continue on reading v9 thru 18 John heard a voice behind him, when he turned around he saw someone "like the son of man" (here John describes the same person as in Daniel 7:9), this person says to John do not to be afraid I am the First & the Last. I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever!

  Then go back to Rev 1:4,5 where John wishes grace from that person who "is, was and is to come", AND the seven spirits, AND from Jesus Christ.

  The seven spirits are before the throne, not on the throne. I don’t know what the meaning is, the 7 Churches (which was already mentioned), 7 Beautitudes, Fullness & Completeness? My NIV says that it could be translated Sevenfold Spirit. Maybe somebody else knows the meaning of this.

  So (at least in my old JW view) the "AND" separates the Alpha/Omega person who is was and is to come from Jesus. (Unless you want to argue that the Alpha/Omega person = the seven spirits = Jesus, then you have not a Trinity but a 9-inity or something.)

  Then who do you believe is coming? The very last lines in Rev states that Jesus is coming.
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  24

  The JW lady came back/Who really is our Mediator?

  by Guest with Questions in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  continuation of my first post: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/132283/1.ashx.

  this past tuesday the jw lady came back, which surprised me.

  she came with her husband and i told them that it wasnt really fair (one against two).

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  Guest with Questions

  sorry about blue font

  forgot to add:

  Replacement Theology: Separating the Bible into Old and New Testaments has resulted in Replacement Theology. There are those who argue that since Israel rejected Jesus as Messiah, all covenants (icluding the New Covenant) have been rendered null and void.

  But God said He would forgive Israel's iniquity (Jeremiah 31:32-34, Romans11:1-3

  God has not cast away His people. Romans 11:26-27

  May 14, 1948 Israel became a nation again, and God is regathering the Jewish people and restoring the land. Ezekial 36:36

  God is not finished with Israel - He is keeping all His covenant promises to the Jewish people. Zecheriah14, Romans 11:26
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  24

  The JW lady came back/Who really is our Mediator?

  by Guest with Questions in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  continuation of my first post: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/132283/1.ashx.

  this past tuesday the jw lady came back, which surprised me.

  she came with her husband and i told them that it wasnt really fair (one against two).

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  Guest with Questions

  Their constant "tacking with the wind" and being able to accept whatever teachings they come up is tantamount to "following the christ". IMO

  This can cover a multitude of mistakes just like new light. As they were leaving, I asked the lady if they were as generous when another org or church made any mistakes.

  My understanding is that Russell was not the founder of the JW Org but the Bible Students and that Rutherford is the founder of the JW organization.

  It's a bit like trying to say Henry Ford didn't found the present Ford Motor Company.

  According to these sites they really want to distance themselves from the JW Org. So much for my mother telling me that they are all very united. It seems to me that, just like the church, there is separation.

  http://www.biblestudents.net/food4jws/wt_history/bsjw.htm

  http://www.nsbible.org/pastor_not_founder.htm

  *** w03 2/15 p. 22 What Does the Lord’’s Evening Meal Mean to You? *** Anointed Christians are certain of their heavenly hope, of their having been taken into the new covenant. Jesus mentioned it when he instituted the Memorial and said: "This cup means the new covenant by virtue of my blood, which is to be poured out in your behalf." (Luke 22:20) The parties to the new covenant are God and anointed ones. (Jeremiah 31:31-34; Hebrews 12:22-24) Jesus is the mediator. Made operative by Christ’s shed blood, the new covenant took out not only from the Jews but also from the nations a people for Jehovah’’s name and made them part of Abraham’’s "seed." (Galatians 3:26-29; Acts 15:14) This "everlasting covenant" provides for all spiritual Israelites to be resurrected to immortal life in heaven.——Hebrews 13:20.
  

  All Jews were under the Old Covenant and all people are under the New Covenant.

  I took a class at my church a while back about "Why Israel"

  God made four Unconditional Covenants with Israel: these covenants are eternal and everlasting. They were all (including the New Covenant) made with Israel. Paul says that Gentiles were once cut off from Israel’s covenants but now have been included through Jesus’ blood (Eph 2:11-13). Without Christ, were are on the outside looking in on God’s relationship with Israel. The roots of the tree we’ve been grafted into are the covenants God made with Israel.

  1. Abrahamic Covenant (Gen 12:1) The covenant made with Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and their descendants.

  2. Israel Covenant (Gen 15:18-21; 17:7-8) The covenant of the Promised Land

  3. Davidic Covenant (2 Sam 7:12-13) The covenant of the Never-ending Kingdom

  4. New Covenant (Jeremiah 31:31-33) The covenant of the Cross

  There was one Conditional Covenant: (Ex 19:5, 20:1-17, Deut 28:1-68) the Mosaic Covenant

  Thanks for all the responses. I do realize now that what the official teaching is about the Mediator is very different from what they tell "outsiders", and that most JW's probably don't realize what that teaching is, thinking that Jesus is the Great Crowd's Mediator. I do hope I get some feedback from my future posts. I may try to get this witness couple to come back if I have it all straight in my mind.
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  15

  Favourite Biblical verses?

  by greendawn in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  what are your favourite biblical verses?

  even some ex jws may have become atheists but may still be fascinated by some.

  someone told me his favourite verse was "thou shalt not go hungry", he was always out of work and liked stealing, but according to him this was one of the commandments given to moses.

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  Guest with Questions

  These are just a few. I love the Psalms also.

  Romans 8:14-15 Because those who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God. For you did not receive a spirit that makes you a slave again to fear, but you received the Spirit of sonship. And by him we cry, "Abba, Father."

  Hebrews 13:5b-6 Because God has said, "Never will I leave you; never will I forsake you." So we say with confidence, "The Lord is my helper; I will not be afraid. What can man do to me?"

  Isaiah 41:10 So do not fear, for I am with you; do not be dismayed, for I am your God. I will strengthen you and help you. I will uphold you with my righteous right hand. (I kept this verse a number of years ago when going through rough times)

  Matthew 22:37-40 "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbour as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."

  Galatians 2:20-21 The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!"

  Ephesians 2:4:10 But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions-it is by grace you have been saved. And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith - and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God - not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.
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  11

  Forum Skins i am making (your thoughts)

  by KW13 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i run a technology forum with some friends.

  not long ago i showed the aurora elements of these skins for your feedback which was appreciated.

  i'm not asking just to get "oh how nice" although that'd be nice lol, i want to know if its easy to read the writing, whether colour schemes (whether ya like or not) match up etc.

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  Guest with Questions

  As far as colours I like the first one best. I personally have difficulty with the lines but that's probably because I wear glasses and just had cataract surgery (yes, even younger people get cataracts) I would choose this one over the others inspite of the lines.

  The second one I found too busy

  I like the colours on the third one, it was easier on the eyes for me. Does the hay have any signifigance?

  I use CorelDraw so I'm wondering if you used a fountain fill.
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  4

  re JW’s lady came back/Alpha & Omega

  by Guest with Questions in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  part 2. .

  alpha & omega: i asked the husband who the alpha & omega was.

  i read rev 1:8, (i should have continued reading v12-18), rev 21:6-7, rev 22:12-13 we all agreed that god (or jehovah/i prefer yahweh) was the alpha & omega.

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  Guest with Questions

  Part 2

  Alpha & Omega

  : I asked the husband who the Alpha & Omega was. I read Rev 1:8, (I should have continued reading v12-18), Rev 21:6-7, Rev 22:12-13 We all agreed that God (or Jehovah/I prefer Yahweh) was the Alpha & Omega.

  First & Last:

  Then I read all the First & Last.

  Isaiah 44:6

  clearly shows it’s God,

  Rev 1:17

  clearly shows it’s Jesus

  Rev 2:8 clearly shows it’s Jesus

  Rev 22:13 because we already established that God was Alpha & Omega it must be referring to God.

  His answer was that first could be applied to a lot of things such as Peter was the first disciple. I was totally dumbfounded and asked him if he could truly believe what he had just said. I hadn’t thought to ask if Peter was the last disciple. Was Adam then also the First & Last?

  Beginning & End: I read Rev 21:6-7, Rev 22:13 again. My understanding that these verses apply to God.

  Who is Coming? Then I asked who was coming?

  Rev 4:8..... is the Lord God Almighty, who was, and is, and is to come.

  Rev 22:7 I am coming soon!

  Rev 22:12 Behold, I am coming soon!

  Rev 22:20 Yes, I am coming soon. Amen, Come, Lord Jesus.

  My feeling is that Jesus is coming soon but he explained that God is coming but that Jesus is actually representing him? (something to that effect) Maybe somebody can explain what he meant.

  Alpha & Omega, First & Last, Beginning & End: to me they are all the same thing
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  24

  The JW lady came back/Who really is our Mediator?

  by Guest with Questions in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  continuation of my first post: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/132283/1.ashx.

  this past tuesday the jw lady came back, which surprised me.

  she came with her husband and i told them that it wasnt really fair (one against two).

  1. 
  2. 
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  Guest with Questions

  They beleive the seven trumpets of Revelation were the seven Bible Student conventions from 1922 to 1928, starting with Cedar Point, Ohio and ending with Detroit, Michigan.

  Hi garybuss,

  How does a rational person believe that something as irrevelant as a convention is prophesied in the Bible. Also, I looked up the Bible Students a while back and they state that they are not in any way connected to the Jehovah Witness Org; that they split up when Rutherford took over. My understanding is that Russell was not the founder of the JW Org but the Bible Students and that Rutherford is the founder of the JW organization.
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  24

  The JW lady came back/Who really is our Mediator?

  by Guest with Questions in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  continuation of my first post: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/132283/1.ashx.

  this past tuesday the jw lady came back, which surprised me.

  she came with her husband and i told them that it wasnt really fair (one against two).

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Guest with Questions

  Hi Heathen; thanks for responding. In my other post Blondie did respond and gave some good answers. I notice in this post I'm duplicating some of my findings; it's because I'm tired so I hope people will bear with me. I probably need to take some time away from this. My head is just swimming with information and I keep needing to write things down in case I forget something. (what I won't do for my mother!!)

  My understanding is: the Org states that Jesus is not Mediator for the Great Crowd, but is Mediator for 144,000 but because of the Great Crowd's association with the 144,000 they benefit from that indirectly. Is that right? If that is the case, then why aren't they up front about it. It just confuses people. (but I guess that is the point) My feeling is that they really don't want the "outsiders" to know where they stand until they got you. I also get the feeling that most people that are visited by JW's don't know much (or anything) about the bible to respond to them so it seems to make sense.